Sikhism

[ISDhillon]

High Dhillon i got the jist of what you were saying but i didn't understand a lot because you were using a lot of vocabulary foreign to me

what is amrit and panthic maryda

so you say you now live to your own conscience, why were the laws of before not still adhered to? So basically you don't have to do those 4 things?

Amrit - the baptismal ceremony

Panthic maryada - the code of conduct which is not static and can change with reality of the times

4 kurehits are still adhered to cos thats was gods hukum to the sikhs, the consciecnce is about your instinct.

 

[Mohsin]

Amrit - the baptismal ceremony

Panthic maryada - the code of conduct which is not static and can change with reality of the times

4 kurehits are still adhered to cos thats was gods hukum to the sikhs, the consciecnce is about your instinct.

Ok so you are sinning if you don't grow your hair right?

So what happens if you disobey the commands? I mean you guys don't believe in heaven/hell right? So what would happen if you were to disobey these commands

 

[ISDhillon]

Ok so you are sinning if you don't grow your hair right?

So what happens if you disobey the commands? I mean you guys don't believe in heaven/hell right? So what would happen if you were to disobey these commands

No there is no such thing as sin, if you dont grow youre hair then you dont grow your hair period, when you are ready in youre life you take amrit it is not forced on anyone you have to prepare yourself for this step.

nothing happens if you disobey the commend, sikhism is not about do this and that will happen, when you take amrit you aspire to be gurmukh it is a gradual life commitment not an overnight transformation.

nothing happens if you dont obey these commandments, you do what you do out of love, this is the idea of submission that islam has forsaken.

ISDhillon:thankyou:

 

[max314]

Guru Gobind Singh ji discussed this with muslim emperor Mohammad Azam (third son of Aurangzeb), he told him there may be three gods. Emperor replied in anger "What three gods!"

Guru ji smiled and said " Your father hindered the Hindus from worshipping Rama and instead asked them to utter the name of another God, Allah Pak or Khuda. He proclaimed that heaven is made for Muslims and hell for Hindus. Hindus on the other hand do not worship Khuda and claim that the Muslims will go to hell. I believe in a God whom neither of these acknowledge. He is the merciful father of all, and loves the Hindus and Muslims alike, and sends them to heaven or hell on the basis of their actions".

 

[Pukandi baba]

kbIru pUMgrw rwm Alh kw sB gur pIr hmwry ]5]

kabeer poogaraa raam aleh kaa sabh gur peer hamaarae ||5||

Kabeer is the child of God, Allah, Raam. All the Gurus and prophets are mine. ||5||

as i have shown sikhs belive that god had a wife and now a child

Is/was Mohammed not the son of God? Was Jesus not the son of God? are YOU not the son of God is my neighbour not the Son/Daughter of God? I'm sure you have enough intelligence to work out what Kabir Ji meant when he says he is ths Son of god! :happy:

 

[Pukandi baba]

revealed[/B] to Prophet Muhammed SAW.

2 - Also you still haven't explained the "useless" ritual that Guru nanek went on, Hajj, was he a muslim then and not a sikh? How did he go there, did he say he was a muslim?

Firstly the Arch angel Gabriel revealed the Koran to Mohhmmed - OK so your disputing that that Guru Granth Sahib is not the Word of God but the Koran is - Let's see the facts. Guru Nanak utters the Word which he receives directly from God. Mohammed gets it via a 'go-between' who happens to be Gabriel. So God revealed the Word to Gabriel he then passed it on to Mohammed who then recites it to his disciples who then compile the Koran. So God decided to go around the tree's and bushes to reveal the Koran as apposed to directly to Mohammed? Speaks volumes don't you think!:rollseyes

 

[Pukandi baba]

Firstly the Arch angel Gabriel revealed the Koran to Mohhmmed - OK so your disputing that that Guru Granth Sahib is not the Word of God but the Koran is - Let's see the facts. Guru Nanak utters the Word which he receives directly from God. Mohammed gets it via a 'go-between' who happens to be Gabriel. So God revealed the Word to Gabriel he then passed it on to Mohammed who then recites it to his disciples who then compile the Koran. So God decided to go around the tree's and bushes to reveal the Koran as apposed to directly to Mohammed? Speaks volumes don't you think!:rollseyes

BTW Guru Nanak didn't go to Mecca to do hajj....

When Guru Nanak reached Mecca, he went inside the mosque where the pilgrims were engaged in their devotions. Muslims bow their head toward the mosque in Mecca because they believe that God resides there. When Guru Nanak Dev ji lay down to sleep at night, he turned his feet towards the Mosque. Watching Guru Nanak sleeping with his feet towards the Mosque, the qazi (Muslim priest), Jiwan kicked him and asked who this infidel was. Why is this person sleeping with his legs spread towards God? Guru ji replied, turn my feet in the direction in which God is not. Upon this, he seized Guru ji’s feet and dragged them in the opposite direction and what he saw was astonishing. Wherever he moved the Guru’s feet, the mosque revolved in that direction. The qazi then came to the realization that God is everywhere. Those who witnessed this miracle were astonished and saluted Guru ji

 

[max314]

BTW Guru Nanak didn't go to Mecca to do hajj....

When Guru Nanak reached Mecca, he went inside the mosque where the pilgrims were engaged in their devotions. Muslims bow their head toward the mosque in Mecca because they believe that God resides there. When Guru Nanak Dev ji lay down to sleep at night, he turned his feet towards the Mosque. Watching Guru Nanak sleeping with his feet towards the Mosque, the qazi (Muslim priest), Jiwan kicked him and asked who this infidel was. Why is this person sleeping with his legs spread towards God? Guru ji replied, turn my feet in the direction in which God is not. Upon this, he seized Guru ji’s feet and dragged them in the opposite direction and what he saw was astonishing. Wherever he moved the Guru’s feet, the mosque revolved in that direction. The qazi then came to the realization that God is everywhere. Those who witnessed this miracle were astonished and saluted Guru ji

If I might be so bold: there was no "miracle" and the Mosque stayed put.

What actually happened was the qasi said to Nanak, "you are pionting your feet towards where God resides".

The Master responded by saying "you have my appologies...would you be so kind as to point my feet in a direction where God does not reside".

The qasi picked up the Guru's feet, and as he moved them around, he realised that there was no direction in which God did not reside. These empty ritualisms of 'showing respect'? God has no need for them. The prayer of any religion is not to 'please' God, for he has no such human desires. The prayer of any religion is merely to humble oneself to realise that they are part of the All, so as to help absolve foolish ego and to respect all men and women as one.

"Love man if you wish to love God." ~ Guru Nanak

 

[Pukandi baba]

If I might be so bold: there was no "miracle" and the Mosque stayed put.

What actually happened was the qasi said to Nanak, "you are pionting your feet towards where God resides".

The Master responded by saying "you have my appologies...would you be so kind as to point my feet in a direction where God does not reside".

The qasi picked up the Guru's feet, and as he moved them around, he realised that there was no direction in which God did not reside. These empty ritualisms of 'showing respect'? God has no need for them. The prayer of any religion is not to 'please' God, for he has no such human desires. The prayer of any religion is merely to humble oneself to realise that they are part of the All, so as to help absolve foolish ego and to respect all men and women as one.

"Love man if you wish to love God." ~ Guru Nanak

It's my own personal opinion on this but i believe it did take place as i wrote... Just as Jesus turned water into wine i believe that Guru Nanak ji did perform a miracle. Just as Mohammed performed the miracle of (Splitting of the Moon)

WaheGuru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke fateh

 

[jss]

If I might be so bold: there was no "miracle" and the Mosque stayed put.

What actually happened was the qasi said to Nanak, "you are pionting your feet towards where God resides".

The Master responded by saying "you have my appologies...would you be so kind as to point my feet in a direction where God does not reside".

The qasi picked up the Guru's feet, and as he moved them around, he realised that there was no direction in which God did not reside. These empty ritualisms of 'showing respect'? God has no need for them. The prayer of any religion is not to 'please' God, for he has no such human desires. The prayer of any religion is merely to humble oneself to realise that they are part of the All, so as to help absolve foolish ego and to respect all men and women as one.

"Love man if you wish to love God." ~ Guru Nanak

Bhai Gurdaas Ji in Vaars Bhai Gurdaas on Pannaa 1


bwbw iPr m`ky gXw nIl bsqR Dwry bnvwrI]
Awsw h`Q ikqwb k`C kUjw bWg mus`lw DwrI]
bYTw jwie msIq ivc ijQy hwjI h`j gujwrI]
jW bwbw su`qw rwq nUM v`l mihrwby pWie pswrI]
jIvn mwrI lq dI kyVHw suqw ku&r ku&wrI]
lqW vl ^udwie dy ikauNkr pieAw hoie bjgwrI]
tMgoN pkV GsIitAw iPirAw m`kw klw idKwrI]
hoie hYrwn kryn juhwrI ]óò]


baabaa fir maakae gayaa neel basathr dhhaarae banavaaree||
aasaa haathh kithaab kaashh koojaa baag musaalaa dhhaaree||
bait(h)aa jaae maseeth vich jithhae haajee haaj gujaaree||
jaa baabaa suthaa raath noo vaal mehiraabae paae pasaaree||
jeevan maaree lath dhee kaerrhaa suthaa kur kuaaree||
lathaa val khhudhaae dhae kiouakar paeiaa hoe bajagaaree||
ttago pakarr ghaseettiaa firiaa maakaa kalaa dhikhaaree||
hoe hairaan karaen juhaaree ||aa||


Donning blue attire then Baba Nanak went to Mecca.
He held staff in his hand, pressed a book under his armpit, caught hold of a metal pot and mattress.
Now he sat in a mosque where the pilgrms (hajis) had gathered.
When Baba (Nanak) slept in the night spreading his legs towards the alcove of mosque at Kaba,
the qazi named Jivan kicked him and asked who was this infidel enacting blasphemy.
Why this sinner is sleeping his legs spread towards God, Khuda.
Catching hold of the legs he lynched (Baba Nanak) and lo and behold the miracle, the whole of Mecca seemed to be revolving.
All got surprised and they all bowed.


bhul chuk maaf

 

[Pukandi baba]

:alright: :bravo:

Bhai Gurdaas Ji in Vaars Bhai Gurdaas on Pannaa 1


bwbw iPr m`ky gXw nIl bsqR Dwry bnvwrI]
Awsw h`Q ikqwb k`C kUjw bWg mus`lw DwrI]
bYTw jwie msIq ivc ijQy hwjI h`j gujwrI]
jW bwbw su`qw rwq nUM v`l mihrwby pWie pswrI]
jIvn mwrI lq dI kyVHw suqw ku&r ku&wrI]
lqW vl ^udwie dy ikauNkr pieAw hoie bjgwrI]
tMgoN pkV GsIitAw iPirAw m`kw klw idKwrI]
hoie hYrwn kryn juhwrI ]


baabaa fir maakae gayaa neel basathr dhhaarae banavaaree||
aasaa haathh kithaab kaashh koojaa baag musaalaa dhhaaree||
bait(h)aa jaae maseeth vich jithhae haajee haaj gujaaree||
jaa baabaa suthaa raath noo vaal mehiraabae paae pasaaree||
jeevan maaree lath dhee kaerrhaa suthaa kur kuaaree||
lathaa val khhudhaae dhae kiouakar paeiaa hoe bajagaaree||
ttago pakarr ghaseettiaa firiaa maakaa kalaa dhikhaaree||
hoe hairaan karaen juhaaree ||aa||


Donning blue attire then Baba Nanak went to Mecca.
He held staff in his hand, pressed a book under his armpit, caught hold of a metal pot and mattress.
Now he sat in a mosque where the pilgrms (hajis) had gathered.
When Baba (Nanak) slept in the night spreading his legs towards the alcove of mosque at Kaba,
the qazi named Jivan kicked him and asked who was this infidel enacting blasphemy.
Why this sinner is sleeping his legs spread towards God, Khuda.
Catching hold of the legs he lynched (Baba Nanak) and lo and behold the miracle, the whole of Mecca seemed to be revolving.
All got surprised and they all bowed.


bhul chuk maaf

Satnaam Shri Waheguru!

 

[max314]

Bhai Gurdaas Ji in Vaars Bhai Gurdaas on Pannaa 1

Donning blue attire then Baba Nanak went to Mecca.
He held staff in his hand, pressed a book under his armpit, caught hold of a metal pot and mattress.
Now he sat in a mosque where the pilgrms (hajis) had gathered.
When Baba (Nanak) slept in the night spreading his legs towards the alcove of mosque at Kaba,
the qazi named Jivan kicked him and asked who was this infidel enacting blasphemy.
Why this sinner is sleeping his legs spread towards God, Khuda.
Catching hold of the legs he lynched (Baba Nanak) and lo and behold the miracle, the whole of Mecca seemed to be revolving.
All got surprised and they all bowed.


bhul chuk maaf

Oh, Nanak...how your poetry is wasted on the literal minded.

 

[max314]

Ok so you are sinning if you don't grow your hair right?

So what happens if you disobey the commands? I mean you guys don't believe in heaven/hell right? So what would happen if you were to disobey these commands

These are not "commands" but recommended conduct.

Try to remember the context under which Sikkhism was created.

Like the pagans of Arabia who would worship anything and lived uncicilised, unclean lives, Prophet Mohammad realised that these barbaric people needed to be taught even the most basic things such as how to be clean, etc. He subsequently made it compulsory for his followers to wash before prayers (the prayers themselves were designed as a routine to be followed to instill discipline and focus towards God).

Similarly, the Sikkh Gurus lived in the world of pagan India whereby stone idols were also worshipped, uncivilised behaviour reigned supreme. As such, the Guru Gobind Singh designed a 'uniform' and a way of life that was clean, disciplined, focussed on God, and routed in family life.

We must understand that both the Prophet Mohammad and the Sikkh Gurus were essentially on the same quest: to educate the barbaric masses how to do the things that - in today's world - we take for granted. Things such as equal rights and living cleanly etc that we wouldn't even bat an eyelid at were once considered alien things.

This is why religions today should be taken in context. Sometimes, people get so focussed in on the little details that they fail to see the forest for the trees, and forget the fundamental principles that governed the creation of these systems.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Oh, Nanak...how your poetry is wasted on the literal minded.

If it revolved or not Guru Nanak's point was God does not reside in one direction. just as Jesus said ''The kingdom of God is inside you and all around you''

 

[unbreakable]

Howdy people.

hmm. party's :rant: still going on eh.

haha

:giggling: ;D :happy: :statisfie :grumbling

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Howdy people.

hmm. party's :rant: still going on eh.

haha

:giggling: ;D :happy: :statisfie :grumbling

What party is the mate?

 

[unbreakable]

What party is the mate?

hmmmm.

This thread, which I referred to as a party.

Surprised its still going on.

btw its Aval Allah Noor.

"..aval alah noor upaa-i-aa kudrat kay sabh banday.
First, Allah created the Light; then, by His Creative Power, He made all mortal beings.
ayk noor tay sabh jag upji-aa ka-un bhalay ko manday. ||1||
From the One Light, the entire universe welled up. So who is good, and who is bad? ||1|| ..." Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Waheguru. Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Waheguru Waheguru.

Well I'm off, its a nice day today, lets play some footy. :giggling: :grumbling :giggling:

 

[max314]

If it revolved or not Guru Nanak's point was God does not reside in one direction. just as Jesus said ''The kingdom of God is inside you and all around you''

Precisely.

The qasi probably said to someone "oh, it was as if Mecca was everywhere!"

"Mecca was everywhere, huh? Wow!"

And thus start the Chinese Whispers :giggling:

 

[jss]

Precisely.

The qasi probably said to someone "oh, it was as if Mecca was everywhere!"

"Mecca was everywhere, huh? Wow!"

And thus start the Chinese Whispers :giggling:

Veer ji what daas provided was a translation of bhai gurdas ji's vaar

bhul chuk maaf

 

[Mohsin]

So is that the authentic story behind Guru Nanek pointiong his feet towards the Ka'bah, because its completely incorrect to believe muslims believe God resides there or that is the only direction of God and you can't pray to God unless you face there.