Swiss minaret ban gains momentum

[جوري]

Re: Boycotting Switzerland

I fully and whole-heartedly agree with that.. I don't understand why those rich arabs have khinoo3 to these people and drag all with them.. they are so afraid that God forbid if they withdraw their large fortune which really belongs to the ummah not them as individuals that they'd have to account for it somehow.. so they'd rather die with their fortune in foreign banks which by the way they can freeze any time they please.. they can easily call someone a terrorist, freeze their accounts and seize their money when will they wake up?

I have done my part with Denmark insha'Allah, there were two products that we constantly bought from Denmark and we've boycotted them completely.. and I think if every person who uses some Denmark or swiss product made that switch we'll all be better for it.. let them enjoy their 'freedom' and what it brings them..

I hope the more industrial Islamic countries come forth though, like Malaysia, and Indonesia and fill in the gaps..

:wa:

 

[Argamemnon]

Re: Boycotting Switzerland

Also, USA’s aid, in terms of percentage of their GNP has almost always been lower than any other industrialized nation in the world. Americans are somehow brainwashed to believe that they are the most generous nation on earth while in reality it's the largest rogue state.

 

[Argamemnon]

Re: Boycotting Switzerland

I hope the more industrial Islamic countries come forth though, like Malaysia, and Indonesia and fill in the gaps..

:wa:

But the Turkish minister wants Muslims to deposit their money in Turkish banks, not in Indonesian or Malaysian banks!!

Turkey could also launch "Operation Swiss Freedom" to liberate the Swiss people. And warn neighboring countries not to provide weapons to "Swiss terrorists" or "insurgents".

:wa:

 

[جوري]

Re: Boycotting Switzerland

But the Turkish minister wants Muslims to deposit their money in Turkish banks, not in Indonesian or Malaysian banks!!

Turkey could also launch "Operation Swiss Freedom" to liberate the Swiss people. And warn neighboring countries not to provide weapons to "Swiss terrorists" or "insurgents".

:wa:

I wasn't thinking of finances really rather trade goods, I wouldn't mind Turkey on the forefront, however I am not sure how many Turks want that.. I feel that the religious observant Muslims are a minority and that the majority are in favor of secular laws?

I have been to turkey when I was 13 and that was ages ago, it was beautiful but it was dichotomous clearly delineated east and clearly delineated west.. it is a matter of whose voice is more dominant :hmm:
I do like your new minister though.. khyer insha'Allah

:wa:

 

[Argamemnon]

Re: Boycotting Switzerland

I feel that the religious observant Muslims are a minority and that the majority are in favor of secular laws?

The majority of Turks are deeply attached to Islam and don't like the West at all, but the secularists rule the country (although that seems to be changing). Turkish society, probably like most societies, is very diverse and complicated. But the thing is that most Turks are also very nationalistic. Even the most 'fanatical' Islamists are nationalistic. Someone should explain to them that nationalism is a western concept and alien to Islam. I might be exaggerating and generalizing, but it is true to some extent...

I have been to turkey when I was 13 and that was ages ago, it was beautiful but it was dichotomous clearly delineated east and clearly delineated west :wa:

Large numbers of people living in Anatolia and eastern Anatolia - those who are deeply attached to Islam and constitute the majority of the population - have moved to western regions in the past 5-10 years. Even western Turkey doesn't look particularly 'western' anymore, except certain areas of course. There are many alcohol free restaurants and hotels etc. in western Turkey now, which some 'western' Turks find shocking, but they can't stop it...

Unfortunately, western cultural influence has not only affected Turkey. It continues to affect almost all Muslim nations, which is sad but true. I don't know about Egypt, but I hope you realize that for example Moroccans, Tunisians, or Lebanese are not more pious than Turks. I know Turks who have visited Morocco and were shocked (I will not go into details)..

western Turkey in 2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oGinBXM0Vc

:wa:

 

[جوري]

Re: Boycotting Switzerland

The majority of Turks are deeply attached to Islam and don't like the West at all, but the secularists rule the country (although that seems to be changing). Turkish society, probably like most societies, is very diverse and complicated. But the thing is that most Turks are also very nationalistic. Even the most 'fanatical' Islamists are nationalistic. Someone should explain to them that nationalism is a western concept and alien to Islam. I might be exaggerating and generalizing, but it is true to some extent...

glad to hear it al7mdlillah, except for the nationalism part.. but I think that isn't Turkey exclusive.. I think the only way to rid us of that is to travel.. I know it sounds strange but so true.. folks in an area tend to always think they are the best thing to hit the earth since sliced bread and butter ... when I was there though it didn't seem different to me from England or France... I can't describe in which ways.. it was just a feeling.

Large numbers of people living in Anatolia and eastern Anatolia - those who are deeply attached to Islam and constitute the majority of the population - have moved to western regions in the past 5-10 years. Even western Turkey doesn't look particularly 'western' anymore, except certain areas of course. There are many alcohol free restaurants and hotels etc. in western Turkey now, which some 'western' Turks find shocking, but they can't stop it...

I am not sure there is anything anyone can do to stop it regardless.. People have been committing sin since the beginning of time.. hence 'old as sin' lol

Unfortunately, western cultural influence has not only affected Turkey. It continues to affect almost all Muslim nations, which is sad but true. I don't know about Egypt, but I hope you realize that for example Moroccans, Tunisians, or Lebanese are not more pious than Turks. I know Turks who have visited Morocco and were shocked (I will not go into details)..

western Turkey in 2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oGinBXM0Vc

:wa:

trust me I know all about Morocco and Egypt is no better, plus it is filled with so much superstition and ridiculous things, pretentiousness and pagan rituals and the power of hands, blue eyes and the number five.. It is sad but there really are good people there, still even Al-Azhar wants to curb on the decent people by passing fatwas against niqab and what not, it is as if there is no more room for someone who chooses the path of God.. it is the path of most resistance... I think that is why there is a hadith about they who hold on to their religion being akin to someone holding a fiery-ember -- jamara min an'nar..

May Allah swt save us these tribulations as they are sure to get worst..:hmm:

:wa:

 

[جوري]

Re: Swiss move to ban minarets as 'symbols of Islamic power'

@ 2:41 in that video there is a woman behind the first two that with her eyes cast down, she looks so much like my deceased grandmother (Allah yerhmha) wow.. that made me so sad..
I enjoyed the video.. Jazaka Allah khyran.. really glad of it.. insha'Allah good things will continue for Turkey and the Muslim world..

:wa:

 

[Argamemnon]

Re: Boycotting Switzerland

glad to hear it al7mdlillah, except for the nationalism part.. but I think that isn't Turkey exclusive..

But in Turkey secularists have always used and promoted nationalism to keep Turks away from Islam. Turkishness is almost promoted as being a religion (estagfirullah).

I am not sure there is anything anyone can do to stop it regardless.. People have been committing sin since the beginning of time.. hence 'old as sin' lol

I agree, we have to accept that some people will prefer to become kafir, it is their loss, lol..

trust me I know all about Morocco and Egypt is no better, plus it is filled with so much superstition and ridiculous things, pretentiousness and pagan rituals and the power of hands, blue eyes and the number five.. It is sad but there really are good people there, still even Al-Azhar wants to curb on the decent people by passing fatwas against niqab and what not, it is as if there is no more room for someone who chooses the path of God.. it is the path of most resistance... I think that is why there is a hadith about they who hold on to their religion being akin to someone holding a fiery-ember -- jamara min an'nar..

May Allah swt save us these tribulations as they are sure to get worst..:hmm:

:wa:

Thank you for educating me on Egypt. I know this is off topic, but I think Turkey, Iran and Egypt are three key nations in the Middle East/North Africa. These three countries have ancient civilizations/rich cultures and a strong sense of statehood. If they formed an alliance, they could defeat western interference in the Middle East. Arabs, Persians and Turks working together; I know it won't happen, yawn. Nationalism and "national interests" seem to have replaced Islam in most Muslim countries.

:wa:

 

[جوري]

Re: Boycotting Switzerland

Thank you for educating me on Egypt. I know this is off topic, but I think Turkey, Iran and Egypt are three key nations in the Middle East/North Africa. These three countries have ancient civilizations/rich cultures and a strong sense of statehood. If they formed an alliance, they could defeat western interference in the Middle East. Arabs, Persians and Turks working together; I know it won't happen, yawn. Nationalism and "national interests" seem to have replaced Islam in most Muslim countries.

:wa:

Oh God yeah, Muslims are there own worst enemies.. if they band together there is no question of what they can do, each region having something the other needs all together a force to be reckoned with, but yes many have vested interest in keeping us in this state and we love to imitate the worst of the west.. Egypt especially, really it is just awful.. turn on the TV in Ramadan and see debauchery full bloom can you imagine the rest of the year. .. you know that 'queen' nazly of Egypt converted to Catholicism.. any governing body in Egypt, I feel are better off as kaffirs, for they can never rid themselves of their pharonic tyrant roots, even if they have no Egyptian at all in them.. just the minute they assume that throne they are bedeviled...

It is going to take something really huge to get it back to where it was or better.. but I have faith in Allah swt that it will, once the bulk of the people change for the better.. Why should Allah swt offer good things to folks who haven't earned it?

:wa:

 

[Argamemnon]

Re: Boycotting Switzerland

Oh God yeah, Muslims are there own worst enemies.. if they band together there is no question of what they can do, each region having something the other needs all together a force to be reckoned with, but yes many have vested interest in keeping us in this state and we love to imitate the worst of the west.. Egypt especially, really it is just awful.. turn on the TV in Ramadan and see debauchery full bloom can you imagine the rest of the year. .. you know that 'queen' nazly of Egypt converted to Catholicism.. any governing body in Egypt, I feel are better off as kaffirs, for they can never rid themselves of their pharonic tyrant roots, even if they have no Egyptian at all in them.. just the minute they assume that throne they are bedeviled...

It is going to take something really huge to get it back to where it was or better.. but I have faith in Allah swt that it will, once the bulk of the people change for the better.. Why should Allah swt offer good things to folks who haven't earned it?

:wa:

Queen Nazli converted to Catholicism from Islam! I didn't know that, but then, I didn't even know who queen Nazli was. Now I know, thank you. And I agree with you, in the end those who are righteous and patient will succeed. It is a promise from Allah in the Qur'an so...

:wa:

 

[جوري]

Re: Boycotting Switzerland

Queen Nazli converted to Catholicism from Islam! I didn't know that, but then, I didn't even know who queen Nazli was. Now I know, thank you. And I agree with you, in the end those who are righteous and patient will succeed. It is a promise from Allah in the Qur'an so...

:wa:

she wasn't worthy of being known.. she had the kuffr face about her, it is amazing that even with her new religion and new god she couldn't keep true to her new tenets having lovers and divorces and several husbands..
I am not sure which is worst, those who are outwardly kaffirs and are frankly treasonous to the blood of citizens (the Monarchy), or those who feign to be pious and still do the same (current regime)..Egypt-- she lies wounded mortally forever licking her wounds as does Palestine which encloses in her deep the blood of her dying children..

It makes me sad imsad

:wa:

 

[titus]

Re: Swiss move to ban minarets as 'symbols of Islamic power'

if Muslims believe that Churches arent allowed in the Muslim world, or to be built, then those Muslims really have no place to be complaining about this

Another irony is that someone is currently arguing that Muslim states have the right to attack another country if that country inhibits the spread of Islam.

So under Sharia I guess it is permissible to inhibit other religions from spreading in their country, but they are allowed to conquer anyone that does the same to their religion.

The question then has to be asked: Is this the opinion of most Muslims, or just a few?

Comparing the rights of a democracy that has no religious stance vs a theistic state that has a religious stance is like comparing apples and oranges.

Sorry, that is a cop out. We are comparing two forms of government and how they deal with issues. Abuse is abuse whether it be under a democracy, a theocracy, a plutocracy or a dictatorship. Wrong is wrong, and hypocrisy and hypocrisy no matter what banner if flies under.

I know, I didn't even think that. It's true though, we should see how easy it is to build a large mosque in the centre of the Vatican. If it was easy, then they have my respect. I don't actually think we should, but just as a response to those going on about Saudi and churches.

You are comparing Saudi Arabia with a state smaller than one of my friends' farm. A more correct analogy would be comparing the Vatican with Mecca, although Mecca is roughly 1700 times bigger. A better comparison would be the Vatican and Al-Masjid al-Ḥarām since they are roughly the same size. I think we would all agree it would be ridiculous to propose building a church in the middle of Al-Masjid al-Ḥarām as it would be to build a masjid in the middle of the Vatican.

 

[جوري]

Re: Swiss move to ban minarets as 'symbols of Islamic power'

where is the argument against attacking other countries? do you have both a reading and comprehension impediment?

 

[titus]

Re: Swiss move to ban minarets as 'symbols of Islamic power'

It is another thread on this very same subforum. You must have missed it so I will excuse the rude post. I know you have difficulty being civil.

Link

 

[جوري]

Re: Swiss move to ban minarets as 'symbols of Islamic power'

It is another thread on this very same subforum. You must have missed it so I will excuse the rude post. I know you have difficulty being civil.

Link

I don't need excuses from unwelcome gadflies..
you don't get to edit your post for content and then turn it around so that you are an innocent party.
if you don't like it here and I suspect that you dislike Muslims to a great degree, then don't be a member here.. you add absolutely nothing to the value of this forum, in fact I think you bring the quota down for those you represent..

all the best!

 

[Chuck]

Re: Swiss move to ban minarets as 'symbols of Islamic power'

Why Saudia always comes into discussion? Comparing Saudia even with any other Islamic country is comparing apples with oranges. Every other Islamic country has churches or other non-muslim places of worship, I don't see what the fuss is about? However, Saudia might allow a church in Riyadh, I heard they are thinking about it.

And there are no public mosques in Athens either.

 

[Chuck]

Re: Swiss move to ban minarets as 'symbols of Islamic power'

Over recent years immigration has brought hundreds of thousands of Muslims to the Greek capital.

But while freedom of worship is guaranteed by Greece's constitution as a member of the European Union, proposals for a new mosque have proved controversial in a country whose population is 96% Greek Orthodox.

There are mosques dating from Ottoman times in the old part of Athens known as Plaka. The Fethiye or victory mosque dates back to 1458. But today these buildings are for tourists not for Muslim prayers. One is now a museum of Greek folk art.

Athens is the only EU capital without a purpose-built place of worship for its Muslim population.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5190256.stm
​

 

[titus]

Re: Swiss move to ban minarets as 'symbols of Islamic power'

I don't need excuses from unwelcome gadflies..

You attacked me, remember?

It is not an excuse, by the way. An excuse implies fault. What I gave was explanation. You assumed (incorrectly) that I made something up, when in fact I could provide the source.

you don't get to edit your post for content and then turn it around so that you are an innocent party.

I did not edit it for content. I simply added content. My original post, that you replied to, was everything up to the beginning of the second quote but excluding the first quote.

I did not see your reply until after I had edited the post, so sorry to bust your bubble I did not edit my post because of you. You were completely irrelevant to the edit.

I suspect that you dislike Muslims to a great degree

Then your suspicions are grossly inaccurate. I have a great respect for Muslim and count a few as some of my best friends.

I do have issues with certain hypocrisies I see with some Muslims, this topic being a great example. I see it as a great hypocrisy that you have, on the same forum, Muslims saying it is fine for them to not let other religions build churches and that it is permissible to attack such countries, yet other Muslims saying that what Switzerland and France and other Western countries are doing is wrong.

I do notice, though, that you are extremely disrespectful to anyone that is not a Muslim on these forums. Do you hate all non-Muslims? Or are you simply so defensive that you assume we are all "out to get you" here?

you add absolutely nothing to the value of this forum, in fact I think you bring the quota down for those you represent..

I have had quite a few intelligent, reasoned and civil discussions on this forum. None of them, of course, involving you. If you would cease with the attacks and insults and actually discuss the topics with me you might find that I do have something to offer. It would also help if you rid yourself of these preconceived notions (like I hate Muslims) before you read my posts. For all I know you may actually have something to offer also, but I will never know because you present yourself in such a rude and immature manner. Maybe one day that will change. I certainly hope so because I suspect there may actually be an intelligent human being hiding under the mask of an immature student that you portray yourself as on these forums.

Peace

 

[جوري]

Re: Swiss move to ban minarets as 'symbols of Islamic power'

You attacked me, remember?

You are second to none in hostilities!

It is not an excuse, by the way. An excuse implies fault. What I gave was explanation. You assumed (incorrectly) that I made something up, when in fact I could provide the source.

When did you supply the source, which btw I didn't even look at it, my reply was in its entirety to your enfeebled insular post which you sought to edit after the fact of the matter!

I did not edit it for content. I simply added content. My original post, that you replied to, was everything up to the beginning of the second quote but excluding the first quote.

You edited for content and added quotes.. from what do you benefit to tell a lie? I don't think anyone here thinks you have any credibility whatsoever, and you tighten the noose around your neck when you mitigate!

I did not see your reply until after I had edited the post, so sorry to bust your bubble I did not edit my post because of you. You were completely irrelevant to the edit.

So what is this all about?

Then your suspicions are grossly inaccurate. I have a great respect for Muslim and count a few as some of my best friends.

Oh and it shows with every post.. I rather feel sorry for your friends to have such low standards, unless you completely conceal your true feelings from them!

I do have issues with certain hypocrisies I see with some Muslims, this topic being a great example. I see it as a great hypocrisy that you have, on the same forum, Muslims saying it is fine for them to not let other religions build churches and that it is permissible to attack such countries, yet other Muslims saying that what Switzerland and France and other Western countries are doing is wrong.

The topic has nothing to do with building anew, it has to do with existing minarets of which there are only four in the entirety of Switzerland-- in fact the true hypocrisy would be the response if Muslims were to pass decrees to annex structures of importance in existing churches, be it alters or benches or whatever else of relevance to the structure.. the problem with you, is that you can't even make a correct analogy to save your dear life and would rather dwell with irrelevant rant!

I do notice, though, that you are extremely disrespectful to anyone that is not a Muslim on these forums. Do you hate all non-Muslims? Or are you simply so defensive that you assume we are all "out to get you" here?

Like your ailing analogies your psychological analysis are akin to braying donkeys

I have had quite a few intelligent, reasoned and civil discussions on this forum. None of them, of course, involving you. If you would cease with the attacks and insults and actually discuss the topics with me you might find that I do have something to offer. It would also help if you rid yourself of these preconceived notions (like I hate Muslims) before you read my posts. For all I know you may actually have something to offer also, but I will never know because you present yourself in such a rude and immature manner. Maybe one day that will change. I certainly hope so because I suspect there may actually be an intelligent human being hiding under the mask of an immature student that you portray yourself as on these forums.

I don't think you have anything to offer, and I find you all around under-educated and distasteful that I'd rather you not incommode us with your tired rhetoric on every thread -- I do run on zero tolerance and don't have to accommodate your ill thought insights and naturally prefer that this forum is homogeneously Muslim.

Peace

All the best

 

[titus]

Re: Swiss move to ban minarets as 'symbols of Islamic power'

When did you supply the source, which btw I didn't even look at it, my reply was in its entirety to your enfeebled insular post which you sought to edit after the fact of the matter!

The link to the post was in my post #175. You quoted it yourself in post #176. I have already explained that I edited my post before I saw your post. Did you not bother to read that either?

You edited for content and added quotes.. from what do you benefit to tell a lie?

Don't call me a liar when you have already said you haven't read my posts. I have not lied one iota and anyone that can read can see that.

The topic has nothing to do with building anew, it has to do with existing minarets of which there are only four in the entirety of Switzerland-

The Swiss have voted to stop the building of any more new minarets. It will allow the existing minarets to stay. This topic is completely about building anew so your comment makes no sense at all.

I don't think you have anything to offer, and I find you all around under-educated and distasteful that I'd rather you not incommode us with your tired rhetoric on every thread -- I do run on zero tolerance and don't have to accommodate your ill thought insights and naturally prefer that this forum is homogeneously Muslim.

I think you may have something to offer, you just never do because you are too busy with the insulting and ranting. You know I am more educated than you are, so it's silly to say these things to try and upset me.