Things in Islam I am curious about...

[جوري]

to get round the rules against preaching and spam; all they have to do is to claim to being "curious about Islam"

I wouldn't even mind that, if it were not repeated on every thread and every post.. pls in the name of God, read his last post before this one .. it is very tedious and tiresome.. he writes the same crap over and over and doesn't read any responses.. if that isn't a barrage of spam, then I don't know what is..


sometimes I don't understand how the moderation works here...
I've been kicked off atheists/christian forums for alot less and more legitimate questions by folks who don't supposedly give a **** and are ready come what may.. what is going on here? There is no challenge but a constant incessant nuisance!

wa sob7an Allah...

 

[Grace Seeker]

First of all, I don't speak based on personal opinion. This is what the Qur'anic commentary says(Tafsir al jalalayn).
So, I would like either you or Grace or anyone else for that matter to point me out to a well recognized biblical commentary that elaborates on the issue, and let that be the judge on what the meaning of the verses is.

Second, In Islam we believe that the descriptions of heaven are Literal, again this is not my personal opinion, but the consensus of most scholars, I don't see a problem with having brocaded sofas in heaven .

But don't you think it is better to let the Bible speak for itself than to have it interpretted by an Islamic tafsir?

I've already said that I can see where Islam projects that saying that God rested equates with him needing a rest, but where in the Bible is such a syllogism created? So, why project that onto the Bible when the Bible does not itself say that God needed a rest, only that he did rest? Do you see that there is a difference?

 

[جوري]

why would god take a rest if he didn't need a rest?
rest is a pause for relaxation after tiresome work.. you don't need Islamic exegesis to understand what that means..

 

[Follower]

LOL!! Maybe if the Bible had said GOD took a day of non-work it would have been better?

 

[Grace Seeker]

why would god take a rest if he didn't need a rest?
rest is a pause for relaxation after tiresome work.. you don't need Islamic exegesis to understand what that means..

Not all rest are that. For instance, if you play music you will note (pun not intended) that there are rests on the page. These are not there because one is tired, but simply because nothing is to be played at that moment in time.

I remember that this question was put to Rav and Lavikor when they still posted here and they quoted from some Jewish rabbis who had explained that the Jewish understanding of the passage was simply that God finished his work. He was done. Therefore he rested. Not because he was tired, but because there was no more work to be done, the world had been created.

Even from a human perspective I have had people approach me on my day off and ask me what I was doing. I answered "resting". Why? Was I tired from work? No, I just had decided to do nothing because at the moment I had nothing to do. So, I think, it is not necessary that one infer that God is needing rest simply because he is reported to rest.

 

[جوري]

Not all rest are that. For instance, if you play music you will note (pun not intended) that there are rests on the page. These are not there because one is tired, but simply because nothing is to be played at that moment in time.

that would be the case if god were making a melody and resumed the same tempo after but god took a whole day off by whatever measure can only denote tiredness.. just fyi I have taken piano lessons through elementary to junior high a pose after a piece denotes fingers sore

I remember that this question was put to Rav and Lavikor when they still posted here and they quoted from some Jewish rabbis who had explained that the Jewish understanding of the passage was simply that God finished his work. He was done. Therefore he rested. Not because he was tired, but because there was no more work to be done, the world had been created.

the jewish understanding doesn't make it any better.. given that after creation there is maintenance, if god tired of work why wouldn't he tire of maintenance as well?

Even from a human perspective I have had people approach me on my day off and ask me what I was doing. I answered "resting". Why? Was I tired from work? No, I just had decided to do nothing because at the moment I had nothing to do. So, I think, it is not necessary that one infer that God is needing rest simply because he is reported to rest.

actually that is usually what happens when you liken god to humans or make him into an ineffectual human, you have to constantly explain ridiculous actions, like resting or praying or dying...

all the best

 

[Zafran]

LOL!! Maybe if the Bible had said GOD took a day of non-work it would have been better?

God does in the bible he rests on the 7th day

Gensis 2:2 - "By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done"

Your showing your weakness of not knowing your own book

oh and i forgot LOL!!

 

[GreyKode]

Not all rest are that. For instance, if you play music you will note (pun not intended) that there are rests on the page. These are not there because one is tired, but simply because nothing is to be played at that moment in time.

I remember that this question was put to Rav and Lavikor when they still posted here and they quoted from some Jewish rabbis who had explained that the Jewish understanding of the passage was simply that God finished his work. He was done. Therefore he rested. Not because he was tired, but because there was no more work to be done, the world had been created.

Even from a human perspective I have had people approach me on my day off and ask me what I was doing. I answered "resting". Why? Was I tired from work? No, I just had decided to do nothing because at the moment I had nothing to do. So, I think, it is not necessary that one infer that God is needing rest simply because he is reported to rest.

Then why does it have to be resting on the seventh day?,Why not just say He created everything in 6 days and fullstop?

why not created everything in 6 days and then rested (forever)?, unless there was some more work to be done and in this case it would imply that he was tired so he rested on the 7th day and then continued working on the 8th day.

Your analogy of the piano is faulty, while playing music it serves purpose to play nothing in a certain time interval(other instruments work at that time etc etc), I don't think that can be compared with creation or GOD's work in general.

 

[Follower]

LOL!! Zaphran- no I know what the Bible says. I said facetiously :

Maybe if the Bible had said GOD took a day of non-work it would have been better?

To show that He was taking a day off from work, not that He was weary.

This leads me to ask something I am curous about - is the Quran to be taken literally?

 

[Zafran]

LOL!! Zaphran- no I know what the Bible says. I said facetiously :

Maybe if the Bible had said GOD took a day of non-work it would have been better?

To show that He was taking a day off from work, not that He was weary.

This leads me to ask something I am curous about - is the Quran to be taken literally?

is the Quran to be taken literally?[/

depends of specific verses.

To show that He was taking a day off from work, not that He was weary.

So you believe that God did take a break?

Gensis 2:2 - "By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He

"he rested" that signifies that God was resting - was God weary?

 

[Follower]

He was done creating.

 

[Follower]

depends of specific verses

How does the Muslim know which are to be taken literally and which are not?

 

[Zafran]

depends of specific verses

How does the Muslim know which are to be taken literally and which are not?

The arabic is preety clear

So you believe that God did take a break?

Gensis 2:2 - "By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He

"he rested" that signifies that God was resting - was God weary?

 

[GreyKode]

depends of specific verses

How does the Muslim know which are to be taken literally and which are not?

Advice : Ask yourself the same question before directing it to others.

How do christians know which verses from the bible are to be taken literally...?

 

[Zafran]

Advice : Ask yourself the same question before directing it to others.

How do christians know which verses from the bible are to be taken literally...?

psssss - its the holyghost - he hears it

 

[Grace Seeker]

Then why does it have to be resting on the seventh day?,Why not just say He created everything in 6 days and fullstop?

why not created everything in 6 days and then rested (forever)?, unless there was some more work to be done and in this case it would imply that he was tired so he rested on the 7th day and then continued working on the 8th day.

Your analogy of the piano is faulty, while playing music it serves purpose to play nothing in a certain time interval(other instruments work at that time etc etc), I don't think that can be compared with creation or GOD's work in general.

It's not my point to debate Islamic theology here by countering it with Jewish or Christian understandings of the passage. That would make this thread like so many other threads. I can debate what is the "correct" interpretation if that is what you are interested. But that isn't what I am interested in asking the question.
Rather, I understand that Islam sees the biblical view of God with the resting on the seventh day as "needing" to rest. What I don't understand is why Islam sees the act of resting as demonstrating need when the Bible itself doesn't say that God needed to rest, only that he did rest?

Is it something that the Qur'an or a Hadith says in commenting on the Bible? Or is this a latter interpretation found only in Islamic commentaries? I guess I'm asking if this view is human opinion or divine revelation as far as Islam is concerned?

As far as the concept of an 8th day, actually that is a concept found in both Jewish and Christian thought, but it is not something that is explicitly revealed in Holy Scripture.

And Jews would say that the 7th day was given to humankind as a gift because we need the sabbath. The sabbath then given order and a certain rythmn to life. I hadn't intended to make an analogy of that nature -- I was just commenting on how not all rests are because one is tired -- but, now that you point it out the value of the rest within the context of a larger composition, it appears that it actually does work when one looks at the whole of life and the continuing order of the created world as a part of God's composition of our lives. Thanks!!

 

['Abd-al Latif]

This thread will be re-opened after a clean-up.

 

['Abd-al Latif]

Thread re-opened.

Please keep the discussion civil.

 

['Abd-al Latif]

It can only be one way- either Muslims are wrong when they say the Gospel is corrupt or the Quran is wrong to say the people of the Book must judge by the Gospel.

If the Quran is truly the word of GOD then it must be the Muslim that is wrong when they say the Gospel is corrupt.

The corruption is mentioned by the Qur'an and then proclaimed by the Muslims.

I can point out some of the corruption but my intention for pointing them out will not be to offend christian, though I doubt that I will be able to avoid that.

 

[Hugo]

Re: Check it out

I thought the example is perfectly legitimate. the way I believe that Sappho is a poetess and much of her work was lost, I believe also that the Injeel talked about in the Quran is lost.

Now, the question is, how can you take Islamic scriptures to make a point for Christianity-- what is your hope with that one given have many verses speak of your grave error of associating a man with God?
You can't really cherry pick the verses that appeal to you and forgo the rest. The Quran is a done deal and there is no room for christian re-interpretations!

Your questions have been answered, you on the other hand are unwilling to accept the answer given you, and there is nothing anyone can do about that.. It is your belief which you can't even substantiate it against its own self, let alone of others!

all the best

Of course you may believe that the Injeel is lost and as such they are therefore to you valueless as presumably you do not regard the Gospels as we have them now as then same Injeel although you do not have any evidence at all. It follows that you cannot use your view of the Injeel in any argument because such arguments can have no substance. Does it not seem strange to you that you are quite happy to accept Sapho existed because we have a tiny remnant of her work but not the Gospels where we have huge quantities of manuscripts. One might also mention the highly respected Ibn Ishaq, the earliest biographer of the prophet yet we do not have a shred of his original work and we only know it existed at all because later scholars quoted from it.

I don't cherry pick or insult the Qu'ran as sadly is your practice with the Bible and I value these books for what they have to say and what can be learned from them because to do anything else is to reject what is good and let ones prejudice dominate your whole mind.