Can the Quran stand the test?

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Re: How does one know the Qur'an is from God?

Hi glo While people's own views and experiences may be more interesting to read, I believe that ultimately somebody who has spent a lot of their time studying a religion is the most qualified to answer questions about it. I think this also applies to any field, not just religion. :)
I agree to some extend.

But the reason I make the point is because my interest in people is why I am here ... in an Islamic forum full of Muslim people with their own views and thoughts.
If I just wanted the low down of Islam per se I would buy a book or find a Islamic website.
The reason why I chose to spend three years here in LI rather than doing the other, is that I prefer to converse with real people, and try to understand their thoughts and feelings.
That's what's giving me a real feel of what Islam is about. :)

Peace
 
Re: How does one know the Qur'an is from God?

Hi Pygoscelis
I would assume on the same basis that Christians believe the bible to be the word of God. Faith.
That's not actually true. Islam does not expect us to follow it blindly. It gives us proof in the form of the miracle that is the Qur'an which is constantly inviting us to ponder over it's verses. One must bear in mind that Pre-Islam, the Arabs didn't have any kind of civilisation. What they did have however, was a very developed language which they took pride in. They were masters of language and poetry was their thing. Yet, along came Muhammad (peace be upon him) with the Qur'an and even the best of poets at the time were astounded by it's beauty and it's eloquence. It was and still is from out of this world - literally. Many people converted to Islam simply as a result of hearing the Qur'an - 'Umar bin Al-Khattab, the famous companion is just one example.

Muhammad was never even known for being a particular special poet. His reputation was more that of an honest and trustworthy person which is why they used to call him (before his prophethood), Al-Ameen (the trustworthy).

From reading the Seerah (biography) of Prophet Muhammad, one sees many examples of his sincerity and humbleness. He was presented with many opportunities to seize power and yet he didn't and chose to continue preaching the message of Islam even if it meant that he had to suffer many hardships. This man was definitely not a liar.

Some might say that he was mistaken or that he was mentally ill - but that really doesn't stand to reason. If he was mentally ill, why was he able to function perfectly in all other aspects of his life? Also, what kind of mental illness causes one to mistakenly receive revelations teaching people to do good and avoid evil? What kind of mental illness causes one to ultimately change the world and alter the course of history? If all this was caused by a mental illness, then it's an illness I'd sure like to have!

If he wasn't lying and he wasn't mistaken - what other explanation is there?

There are many more points I would like to make but I fear that the thread will lose it's focus.
 
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Re: How does one know the Qur'an is from God?

:salamext:


I like this; :D



One point which made me further strengthen my belief in the Qur'an was this verse;
"And the heavens* We** constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander." [Quran: 51:47]

(the word vasi in Arabic means vast, moowsi’oon [which comes from the root word vasi] is the word used in that verse which signifies that someone is an expander and expanding that certain thing, in the context of the verse – the heavens or space is gradually being expanded by God’s control.]

*heavens = the skies and space above us (in arabic = sama' = heavens), Even linguistically in English and many other languages.

it isn't the Paradise promised for the believers. The gardens promised to the beiievers in the next life is Jannah (which means gardens.)

**We = Royal We, it is used by kings to refer to themselves in a respectful way. Allah - the One & Only God refers to Himself in this respectful Royal 'We' too.



The Big Bang:
http://www.islamicboard.com/dawah/13...ml#post1050844 (Muslims vs Atheists [our foundations in debate])

Someone over 1400 years ago would probably think the universe is static (i.e. stays in a still state), but the Qur'an proves otherwise [that its expanding], which we've just discovered in the 20th century by Edwin Hubble [who came with the Theory of the Big Bang].


That's just another sign that Islam has truth to it, and we are able to understand the universe around us using Qur'anic verses, and science - and by relating them together.​
 
Re: How does one know the Qur'an is from God?

Hi Pygoscelis That's not actually true. Islam does not expect us to follow it blindly. It gives us proof in the form of the miracle that is the Qur'an which is constantly inviting us to ponder over it's verses. One must bear in mind that Pre-Islam, the Arabs didn't have any kind of civilisation. What they did have however, was a very developed language which they took pride in. They were masters of language and poetry was their thing. Yet, along came Muhammad (peace be upon him) with the Qur'an and even the best of poets at the time were astounded by it's beauty and it's eloquence. It was and still is from out of this world - literally. Many people converted to Islam simply as a result of hearing the Qur'an - 'Umar bin Al-Khattab, the famous companion is just one example.

Muhammad was never even known for being a particular special poet. His reputation was more that of an honest and trustworthy person which is why they used to call him (before his prophethood), Al-Ameen (the trustworthy).

reminds me of this christian we have been in discussions with for a long time on the dawah stall, he comes closer to islam then talks to some christian preacher than moves further away.

then the other day a brother who doesnt normally do the stall with us was there and rather than just giving him verses in english, recited the Quran in arabic first, then translated, the christian was saying 'wow, what was that? i've never heard anything like that before'

now he is meeting me on tuesday at my local masjid and he is closer than ever to islam, and inshallah i hope he will say his shahadah soon.
 
Re: How does one know the Qur'an is from God?

How does one know the Qur'an is from God?

I think for one to be convinced the Quran is from God it would have to be a revelation lacking any sort of contradiction. That would be, in my view, the most important evidence. It would then be followed by its elloquence, guidance, beauty of speech, poetry etc etc which the Quran expresses in the most beautiful of fashion.
 
Re: How does one know the Qur'an is from God?

reminds me of this christian we have been in discussions with for a long time on the dawah stall, he comes closer to islam then talks to some christian preacher than moves further away.

then the other day a brother who doesnt normally do the stall with us was there and rather than just giving him verses in english, recited the Quran in arabic first, then translated, the christian was saying 'wow, what was that? i've never heard anything like that before'

now he is meeting me on tuesday at my local masjid and he is closer than ever to islam, and inshallah i hope he will say his shahadah soon.
As well as all the miracles attached to the content of the Qu'ran and how it was passed onto Muhammed, would you say there is also a spiritual or emotional element attached to the Qu'ran?
Something that grabs people at first hearing or reading, something outside of rational thought or logical thinking?

If so, what exactly do you think is it?

Peace
 
Re: How does one know the Qur'an is from God?

As well as all the miracles attached to the content of the Qu'ran and how it was passed onto Muhammed, would you say there is also a spiritual or emotional element attached to the Qu'ran?
Something that grabs people at first hearing or reading, something outside of rational thought or logical thinking?

If so, what exactly do you think is it?

Peace


Alot of people when they hear the Qur'an are amazed at its beauty, and it effects them spiritually and emotionally.


Here's a really good example of that [surah yasin];

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oql3as7LJKg
 
Re: How does one know the Qur'an is from God?

As well as all the miracles attached to the content of the Qu'ran and how it was passed onto Muhammed, would you say there is also a spiritual or emotional element attached to the Qu'ran?
Something that grabs people at first hearing or reading, something outside of rational thought or logical thinking?

If so, what exactly do you think is it?

Peace

From the convert stories I have heard, many of them said it was simply the words of the Qur'an that invoked within them the will to convert to Islam. One case in particular was Umar {ra} - a companion of the Prophet, who before converting, actually wanted to kill the Prophet but after having read some excerpts of the Quran, he wanted to convert. There have been similar cases on youtube; certain haters of islam ended up converting to it due to their persistent nature of analysing the Quranic verses.

So I think there is definitely something within the words of the Quran that creates a conviction in their hearts.

From my own personal experience, it has been a mixture of things: sometimes I read it and the sheer simplicity and clarity of the verse is enough. Then upon reflecting on those verses, the meaning is clearer (''oh, that makes sense'' sort of deal). Other times, I read it and look to the modern world and see why that ruling or verse says what it says. Application to the real world etc.
 
Re: How does one know the Qur'an is from God?

I am actually a revert, I live surrounded by non-Muslims particularly Buddhists and Taoists so my world view is based from the people who majority surrounding me. I also had mocked my late grandfather (Allahuyarhamho) for his adherence to al-Hadiths and Sunnah of Rasulullah SAW. I had revert back to this beloved religion Islam after reading and analyzing the Holy Quran after returning back from Pilgrimage (Hajj) in Mecca. Also I had checked back everything from the root beside polishing back my Quranic Arabic knowledge. Not simply by picking things from internet like what certain people who use Orientalists way to defame others did. I believe it as guidance from Allah SWT because it is His will that guides us. I prayed Allah SWT will make me consistent with the belief and religion that I hold till the day I meet Him. I also asked forgiveness from Allah SWT for mocking my grandfather and also asking Allah SWT forgiveness for him because I can't make it at time asking his forgiveness when he passed away. May Allah SWT grant piece to my late grandfather soul, Amin!
 
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We don't Forced_In but no matter the form the angel Gabriel comforted in the Holy Bible. And there was always a witness, a confirmation that the message was from GOD.

Matthew 1
20But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins."

Mohammad and his Qurqan don't have this.
 
[FONT=VERDANA,ARIAL, HELVETICA][SIZE=-1][Pickthal 19:27] Then she brought him to her own folk, carrying him. They said: O Mary! Thou hast come with an amazing thing.
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 19:28] O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother a harlot.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 19:29] Then she pointed to him. They said: How can we talk to one who is in the cradle, a young boy?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 19:30] He spake: Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He hath given me the Scripture and hath appointed me a Prophet,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 19:31] And hath made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and hath enjoined upon me prayer and almsgiving so long as I remain alive,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 19:32] And (hath made me) dutiful toward her who bore me, and hath not made me arrogant, unblest.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 19:33] Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!

your forefathers in their bib-and-tucker book don't have Jesus speaking at birth either..


[/SIZE]
[/SIZE][/FONT]
 
actually no leeway considering thr townsfolk said;

'kayf no'kalimo man kan fi al'mahd sabya' ? no doubt as to his age then!
Do you speak Arabic? I thought not.. there is no leeway
Jesus and two others were the only ones who spoke as infants a miracle from Allah swt and a way for Mary to prove her innocence from their allegations immediately..

I don't see laughing louis here saying that he is [FONT=VERDANA,ARIAL, HELVETICA][SIZE=-1]He hath given me the Scripture and hath appointed me a Prophet, is there a point to the video?

and lastly nothing about your scriptures is anything to smile about, you just go out of darkness into shadow!

all the best
[/SIZE][/FONT]
 
Ibn Ishaq is indeed all those but not a Muslim scholar.. me being a medical doctor doesn't make me an expert on quantum physics.. but then I think such concepts are too abstract for you to grasp.. further I'll say Ibn Ishaq's works were lost as cited above, makes all the claims you allege dubious, compounded of course by your lack of proper sourcing!

You are right, Hunein Ibn Ishak is not a Muslim. He is a Nestorian Christian. Find source from Muslim if it is about Islam. Not all Middle-Easterners are Muslim.
 
We don't Forced_In but no matter the form the angel Gabriel comforted in the Holy Bible. And there was always a witness, a confirmation that the message was from GOD.

Matthew 1
20But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins."

Mohammad and his Qurqan don't have this.

Have what? What in the world are you talking about?:enough!:
 
Peace,

As a Muslim we believe Quran is totally the word of G-d, it is strongly not the word of prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

Prophet Muhammad have no authority to change or alter any word from the scripture, he just recite it and the words were put into his mouth through recitation. There is not only one way al-Quran being revealed. Al-Quran is not revealed by being cast down as a book from the heaven.

It was recited by archangel Gabriel (pbuh) under the order of Allah SWT. Read the brief commentaries by Syeikh Mutawalli As-Syaarawi concerning how al-Quran was revealed to prophet Muhammad (pbuh). He is a Muslim scholar, not a Christian, not a Jew, and not an Orientalist. Orientalists are insincere to the knowledge, many of their reviews are bias. When I revert back, I never believe in them anymore. Their intention is not sincere because of G-d if they tried to disprove other religions. They just want to validate imperialism and dominion over other fellow human-being.

Q1. Al-Quran was revealed gradually according to certain events that happened. How are those Surahs being arranged and the Quranic verses being collected and compiled as a certain Surah like we see today? Who is the compilers? What are the factors being taken into account when the verses being compiled?

Answer:

1) Allah Messenger, prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is an Ummi (illiterate). He knows not to read nor write.

And thou wast not (able) to recite a Book before we this (Book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe it with thy right hand: In that case, indeed, would the talkers of vanities doubted.

(Translation of Surah Al-Ankabut verse 48, by Abdullah Yusuf Ali)

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) received al-Quran through memorization and recitation. Archangel Gabriel (pbuh) was not only delivering al-Quran but also making it fastened in the heart of prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

Due to prophet Muhammad (pbuh) inability to read or write, he had chose few companions to write those Quranic verses revealed. Among them are 4 prominent companions, Amir Bin Furairah, Ubai Bin Kaab al-Ansari, Muawiyah Bin ABu Sufyan, Zaid Bin Tsabit and many others. They recorded the verses in the written form over palm leaves, sanctified bones of camels, and others. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) had also asked his companions to write it in front him and preventing them from writing other than what he had recited. Prophet (pbuh) said: whomever wrote other than what I had recited (Quranic verses), he must immediately erase it!

In this time, the the prophet's companions sincerely following the instructions to place the Surahs in the correct place. Every year in the holy month of Ramadhan, archangel Gabriel (pbuh) will come to prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and prophet Muhammad (pbuh) will have to tadarrus (a learning process, recitation and memorization, Muslims over the world practicing this in order to keep the purity of al-Quran) the Quranic verses again to the archangel to check the Surahs that were revealed to him before Ramadhan of that year.

After the written process of Quranic verses had finished, prophet Muhammad (pbuh) will instruct the verses to be placed in his house. There are also companions who wrote down the verses for their personal reference and for prayer necessities.

The compilation of al-Quran into a mushaf (manuscript) had already happened in the governance of Abu Bakar (G-d be please with him), a companion of prophet Muhammad (pbuh). The suggestion to compile the verses into a manuscript was made by another companion who is Umar al-Khattab (G-d be please with him). The reason is because many memorizers (the bearers of al-Quran) were martyred in the Yamamah war. Abu Bakr in the beginning opposed the idea as it was never done in the prophet (pbuh) life time but eventually have to agree after he had listened to the explanation of Umar al-Khattab.

Abu Bakr had appointed Zaid Bin Tsabit (G-d be please with him) to compile the Quranic verses into a manuscript. Zaid Bin Tsabit had managed to compile them into a manuscript and it was kept by Abu Bakr. The first compilation exist until the governance of Umar al-Khattab, the second governor.

During the governance of Uthman Affan (G-d be please with him) the third governor, an event happened where Huzaifah bin al-Yaman had joined a war. Huzaifah was surprised to hear that Quran being recited differently in few places where he had passed over in Syria and in Iraq. Huzaifah then met Uthman and telling what he had experienced. Uthman thus had sent a messenger to meet Hafsah (the son of Umar al-Khattab) to take the quran manuscript (written and recorded document) during the governance of Abu Bakr. Uthman instructed Zaid bin Thabit, Abdullah bin Zubair, Said bin al-As, and Abdurrahman bin al-Harith to write few other copies of the manuscript. Those scribes had also made 4 copies of the manuscript and each of them being sent to Syria, Iraq, Egypt, and Madinah.

Truly what had been said in Surah al-Hijir verse 9

translation:

We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and we will assuredly guard it (from corruption).

Syeikh Mutwalli as-Syaarawi said, "the Surahs in the cluster of al-Quran were revealed according to the historical events that happened. While the compilation of those Quranic verses matched into another form, which is through the appropriate methodology like the mediation of human speaking." In his second fatwa, Syeikh Mutawalli said that the arrangement of Surahs had been made according to what had been arranged in Lauh Mahfuz (Guarded Tablet).

Translated from the reference of Islamic Jurispundence, the History, Source and the Schools by Fadilah Sarnap and from the Translation of Al-Jami' al-Fatawa (Compilation of Legal Pronouncement) by Syeikh asy-Syaarawi.

http://soaljawab.wordpress.com/2007/04/22/al-quran-diturunkan-berperingkat-peringkat/
 
This is Muslim part on how al-Quran being revealed. English websites might be written by hateful Orientalists which contradicts and not even from the correct source. Knowledge is the light enlightening darkness. Why should we be lack of integrity when talking about the history of Islam and al-Quran? Orientalists only talks briefly and then making irresponsible commentaries without proper references and sources.

The ways al-Quran being revealed to prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

As what Muslim believes and it is the fact, al-Quran is not a book being cast on our face from heaven. This is how prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as a messenger of Allah and His humble slave receiving the revelation.

1. Archangel Gabriel (pbuh) installing the revelation straight into prophet Muhammad (pbuh) heart. In this case, prophet Muhammad (pbuh) sees nothing. He only feels and sense that it (the Quranic verses) are already in his heart.

Translation of Surah As-Syura verse 51 by Abdullah Yusuf Ali:

It is not fitting for a man that G-d should speak to him except by revelation (only to prophets), or behind the veil*, or by sending of a messenger to reveal, with G-d's permission, what G-d wills: for He is the most High, the Most Wise.

* behind the veil: a person who listens to the words of G-d but he can't see Him like what had happened to holy prophet Moses (pbuh). G-d speaks not like human-being or any other creations, He is beyond our thinking. The verb speak is only a parable for human lowly mind according to limited human language to understand.

2. Archangel Gabriel (pbuh) taking the form of a man who recites the verses in front of prophet (pbuh) until he understand and memorizing the verses.

3. The revelation came to the prophet (pbuh) like the sound of bells. Prophet (pbuh) will fell like something heavy descended over him. Sometimes sweats appear on his eyebrows when the revelation delivered upon him even though it is in winter with extremely cold wind blows.

There is the time where the revelation being delivered to him while he is on his camel and the camel have to stop and lowered itself on the earth because it is heavy. Zaid Bin Tsabit narrated: "I'm the scribe of the revelation for the messenger of Allah (pbuh). I witnessed that when the revelation being delivered to Allah messenger (pbuh), he seems like suffering with an extremely heavy fever (shivering, when you are holding something heavy how do you look like?). His sweats drop like diamonds. When the revelation process had finished only it becomes normal and he resume like before.

4. Archangel Gabriel (pbuh) with his true form revealing himself reciting verses to prophet (pbuh).

Translation of Surah An-Najm by Abdullah Yusuf Ali verses 13 - 15:

13. For indeed he (prophet Muhammad) saw him (archangel Gabriel) at a second descent.

14. Near the Lote-tree (Sidratul-Muntaha) which no one can pass:

15. Near it is the Garden of Abode.

This is a translation from this Islamic website in Malay, sorry for inaccuracy in translation, but this one is from Ahlussunnah Wal-Jamaah Muslim (Sunni) website and the references are from Muslim scholars. Make cross check with Muslim scholars of different universities.

Source: Mufti Department of Malacca State Government, Malaysia, you may check the accuracy of translation if you understand Malay, please inform me of there is any inaccuracy, thank you.

http://www.al-azim.com/masjid/ramadhan1425/nuzul/wahyu.htm
 
I appreciate you listing all of these in one place. I guess I was operating under a false understanding that the same methodology was used continuously throughout the process of Muhammad's receiving of the Qur'an.

But some of these leave the same question with regard to the Qur'an as is frequently put to Christians regarding the inspiration of their scriptures, namely how do you know that you got it right? Let me pick just one of your means you gave and show how I might apply that question to the Qur'an:

1. Archangel Gabriel (pbuh) installing the revelation straight into prophet Muhammad (pbuh) heart. In this case, prophet Muhammad (pbuh) sees nothing. He only feels and sense that it (the Quranic verses) are already in his heart.

Translation of Surah As-Syura verse 51 by Abdullah Yusuf Ali:

It is not fitting for a man that G-d should speak to him except by revelation (only to prophets), or behind the veil*, or by sending of a messenger to reveal, with G-d's permission, what G-d wills: for He is the most High, the Most Wise.

* behind the veil: a person who listens to the words of G-d but he can't see Him like what had happened to holy prophet Moses (pbuh). G-d speaks not like human-being or any other creations, He is beyond our thinking. The verb speak is only a parable for human lowly mind according to limited human language to understand.
In these instances Muhammad has some sort of sense as to what it is that God wants placed in the Book he is giving Muhammad, but it isn't really a recitation afterall. Specifically there are no words. The feeling that Muhammad has ultimately does get expressed in words, but the original form of the communication is, as you put it above, not words but feelings and sensations. And as you further go on to say, human language is limited. So, is there really any way, even in Arabic, for Muhammad to put into words all that was revealed to him? And I don't mean that next question as an attack on the Qur'an, but really the opposite: Isn't the Qur'an actually going to come up short in communicating in human language what Allah made known to Muhammad?
 
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