Mathematical Miracles of the Qur'an

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Trumble said:
Yahya has excelled himself this time! :D It's a good thing for Islam that real intellectuals like Yusuf Estes are around as well.

Surely you can see that if you (using a computer, say, for speed) counted the number of times each word that occurs in the Qur'an occurs, and then match up all those that occur the same number of times you are bound to end up with several combos with such tenous links as 'disaster' and 'thanks', 'benefit and corrupt', 'mind' and 'light' (?) and so on. Not just in the Qur'an but in any book of similar length you care to name. I don't mean to be unkind, but I really find it hard to believe anybody who gave it a moment's thought could be taken in by such nonsense.
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thats pretty much my thought. im just curious exactly where these words are. Does anyone have a lists. As you said, it seems that they likely added words together and chose from those till they got what they wanted.
 
Talha777 said:
My friend talk is cheap. Actually showing me how these numerical miracles are nonsense, that is time and effort better spent in my opinion. Instead of bringing crossword puzzles to try to prove that any book contains such numerical miracles, I invite you and anyone else to give me some satisfactory numerical miracles from any book asides from Holy Quran. Fact of the matter is you never will be able to, so don't even bother.
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Not in mine. To me it seems blindingly obvious that such an analysis will produce such results; indeed I'm surprised Yahya couldn't come up with anything better than he actually did. I certainly have no intention spending weeks counting words and looking for pretty pairs and sadly my computer skills are too limited to write a program to do it. If it isn't obvious to you, however, so be it, I'll leave you to your 'miracles'.

This is problem with you buddhists, you just give a religious coloring to school of yoga/meditation. It is not a real religion.
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It is unwise to declare 'problems' in religions about which you know next to nothing. Meditation and associated activities are part of Buddhism (one eighth of the eightfold path to end suffering), but only part.. just as important is ethical conduct which is almost identical to that in theistic religions, do not kill, do not steal, do not lie, do not have improper sexual relations and so forth. More important than either is one word, 'Compassion'.

Even a Muslim can stay true to his religion and practice meditation. But the teachings of your scripture, compare that with Islamic teachings of Holy Quran, there is no comparison im afraid.
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Islam and (particularly) Christianity both have significant contemplative traditions, even if mainstream Islam has effectively abandoned it. As with Buddhism, they form part of those religions, not all of them. You are in no position to compare scriptures as you have no idea what Buddhist ones contain. The Buddhist approach is to accept the universe as it really is, and learn to deal with it. The theistic approach is to ignore that reality, create an imaginary being in an attempt to convince that there really is some point to it all, and an imaginary after-life to counter the universal fear of death and provide a comforting delusion that however bad things might be in the real world they will be perfect when you die. If you follow all the rules.. but whose rules? In my opinion, of course, 'arrogant and proud' as I am. The good news is that if I am wrong I'll no doubt suffer a suitable dose of hellfire in which to regret it, while if you are wrong you'll never know... :smile:
 
I found this quite intersesting, so I ran a few through the old search engine on my online koran.

The Shaiten/angels was wrong, as was "days", as was seventh heaven, Man was 304 Woman was 19...and i'm stopping right there, cos i dunno who did this miracle checking, but theyre miles and miles out!
 
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barney said:
I found this quite intersesting, so I ran a few through the old search engine on my online koran.

The Shaiten/angels was wrong, as was "days", as was seventh heaven, Man was 304 Woman was 19...and i'm stopping right there, cos i dunno who did this miracle checking, but theyre miles and miles out!
Click to expand...

got a link to that search engine?
 
ok i have checked the arabic for some.

rajul(man) and nisa(women) does indeed both equal 24. However, how is that a miracle? Is "child" and "adult" mentioned the same amount, or "man" and "animals", etc? If not, then why just this?

Also, why is "rejal"(men) and "imraat"(women) not equal the same? Just does not make any sense.

Now I see drama about the word "day." So, I did a lonng, tiring search just for you guys!

ok, "yawn" only is mentioned 133 times.

All in all, "day" is used exactly 446 times. if you exclude "idhin" and "kumu" and such, then you can get 365.

However, why exclude them? Why not also exclude words with beginnings, like..

alyawmi
bialyami
alyawmu
alyama
waakyawma
wabialyama

etc....

Plus, a year in islam is 354, not 365. so why mention 365 anyways?

as for month.. yes, it came out as 12.

as for days.. It came out at 27, and you have to add 3 duals to make it equal 30.

yawm=day
38 Alyawma 2:249 5:3 5:3 5:5 6:93 8:48 11:43 12:54 12:92 16:27 16:63 17:14 19:26 19:38 20:64 20:126 23:65 23:111 25:14 29:36 36:55 36:59 36:64 36:65 37:26 40:16 40:17 40:17 40:29 43:39 43:68 45:28 45:34 50:22 57:12 66:7 68:24 69:35
1 Alyawmi 76:11
2 Alyawmu 70:44 78:39
2 biAlyawmi 4:38 9:29
5 biyawmi 40:27 70:26 74:46 75:1 83:11
8 faAlyawma 7:51 10:92 34:42 36:54 45:35 46:20 57:15 83:34
4 fayawmayidHiN 30:57 55:39 69:15 89:25
4 liyawmi 21:47 38:53 64:9 77:13
4 liyawmiN 3:9 3:25 14:42 83:5
2 waAlyawma 33:21 60:6
21 waAlyawmi 2:62 2:126 2:177 2:228 2:232 2:264 3:114 4:39 4:59 4:136 4:162 5:69 9:18 9:19 9:44 9:45 9:99 24:2 58:22 65:2 85:2
1 wabiAlyawmi 2:8
44 wayawma 2:85 4:159 6:22 6:73 6:128 7:163 9:25 10:28 10:45 11:60 11:99 16:80 16:84 16:89 18:47 18:52 19:15 19:15 19:33 19:33 24:64 25:17 25:25 25:27 27:83 27:87 28:41 28:42 28:62 28:65 28:74 30:12 30:14 30:55 34:40 35:14 39:60 40:46 40:51 41:19 41:47 45:27 46:20 46:34
1 wayawmayidHiN 30:4
2 yawmAaN 2:48 2:123
133 yawma 2:113 2:174 2:212 3:30 3:77 3:106 3:155 3:161 3:166 3:180 3:185 3:194 4:109 4:141 5:109 6:73 6:141 6:158 7:32 7:53 7:163 7:172 8:41 8:41 9:3 9:35 9:36 10:60 10:93 11:8 11:98 11:105 14:41 14:44 14:48 16:25 16:27 16:80 16:92 16:111 16:124 17:13 17:52 17:71 17:97 18:105 19:15 19:33 19:38 19:39 19:85 19:95 20:100 20:101 20:102 20:124 21:104 22:2 22:9 22:17 22:69 23:16 24:24 25:22 25:69 26:82 26:87 26:88 28:61 29:13 29:25 29:55 32:25 32:29 33:44 33:66 38:26 39:15 39:24 39:31 39:47 39:67 40:15 40:16 40:18 40:32 40:33 40:52 41:40 42:7 42:45 44:10 44:16 44:40 44:41 45:17 46:35 50:30 50:41 50:42 50:44 51:13 52:9 52:13 52:46 54:6 54:48 56:56 57:12 57:13 58:6 58:7 58:18 60:3 64:9 66:8 68:42 70:8 70:43 73:14 78:17 78:18 78:38 78:40 79:6 79:35 79:46 80:34 82:15 82:19 83:6 86:9 101:4
14 yawmaNA 2:259 2:281 18:19 20:104 22:47 23:113 24:37 25:26 31:33 40:49 73:17 76:7 76:10 76:27
3 yawmahumu 43:83 52:45 70:42
62 yawmayidHiN 3:167 4:42 6:16 7:8 8:16 14:49 16:87 18:99 18:100 20:102 20:108 20:109 22:56 23:101 24:25 25:22 25:24 25:26 27:89 28:66 30:14 30:43 37:33 40:9 42:47 43:67 45:27 52:11 69:16 69:17 69:18 74:9 75:10 75:12 75:13 75:22 75:24 75:30 77:15 77:19 77:24 77:34 77:37 77:40 77:45 77:47 77:49 79:8 80:37 80:38 80:40 82:19 83:10 83:15 88:2 88:8 89:23 89:23 99:4 99:6 100:11 102:8
3 yawmayni 2:203 41:9 41:12
31 yawmi 1:4 3:55 4:87 5:14 5:36 5:64 6:12 7:14 7:167 9:77 15:35 15:36 15:38 17:58 17:62 23:100 26:189 28:71 28:72 30:56 37:144 38:16 38:78 38:79 38:81 40:30 45:26 46:5 54:19 62:9 68:39
28 yawmiN 2:259 6:15 7:59 9:108 10:15 11:3 11:26 11:84 14:18 18:19 19:37 22:55 23:113 26:38 26:135 26:155 26:156 26:189 32:5 34:30 39:13 43:65 46:21 55:29 56:50 70:4 77:12 90:14
1 yawmihim 7:51
1 yawmihimu 51:60
4 yawmikum 6:130 32:14 39:71 45:34
2 yawmiyidHiN 11:66 70:11
16 yawmu 5:119 20:59 30:56 37:20 37:21 50:20 50:34 50:42 51:12 64:9 75:6 77:14 77:35 77:38 82:17 82:18
9 yawmuN 2:254 11:77 11:103 11:103 14:31 30:43 42:47 54:8 74:9
1 yawmukumu 21:103
1 ywmayidHiN 77:28

449 - (62 + 4 + 2 + 1 + 1) idhin - (4 + 3 + 1 + 1 + 1) - 3 duals - = 365

regular expression /(\S*Aa?y2aA?m\S*)/g ayyam=days
1 Aay2aAmAaN 2:80
1 Aay2aAma 45:14
2 Aay2aAmaNA 2:184 3:24
1 Aay2aAmi 10:102
18 Aay2aAmiN 2:184 2:185 2:196 2:203 3:41 5:89 7:54 10:3 11:7 11:65 22:28 25:59 32:4 41:10 41:16 50:38 57:4 69:7
1 AlAay2aAmi 69:24
1 AlAy2aAmu 3:140
1 biAay2aAmi 14:5
1 waAay2aAmaNA 34:18
= 27 + 3 duals = 30

regular expression /(\S*sch2?ahr\S*)/g schahr = month
2 Alsch2ahra 2:185 5:2
1 Alsch2ahri 2:217
1 Alsch2ahru 2:194
1 biAlsch2ahri 2:194
2 schahraNA 9:36 46:15
2 schahrayni 4:92 58:4
1 schahriN 97:3
1 schahru 2:185
2 schahruN 34:12 34:12
1 waAlsch2ahra 5:97
14 - 2 duals = 12

regular expression /(\S*r2?ajul\S*)/g rajul = man
1 farajuluN 2:282
1 l2irajuliN 39:29
1 lirajuliN 33:4
1 r2ajulaNA 39:29
2 r2ajulayni 16:76 18:32
3 rajulAaN 6:9 7:155 17:47
1 rajulAani 5:23
3 rajulaNA 18:37 25:8 40:28
2 rajulayni 2:282 28:15
5 rajuliN 7:63 7:69 10:2 34:7 43:31
8 rajuluN 4:12 11:78 23:25 23:38 28:20 34:43 36:20 40:28
1 warajulaNA 39:29
29 - 5 duals = 24

(\S*Ai?mraAa?t\S*)/g imraat (?) = woman
2 AimraAat+a 66:10 66:11
1 AmraAat+aN 27:23
3 AmraAat+u 3:35 12:30 12:51
2 AmraAat+uN 4:12 4:128
4 AmraAatahu 7:83 15:60 27:57 29:32
2 AmraAataka 11:81 29:33
2 AmraAatiy 19:5 19:8
1 AmraAatu 28:9
1 AmraAatuhu 51:29
1 AmraAtayni 28:23
1 lAimraAatihi 12:21
1 waAimraAat+a 66:10
1 waAmraAat+aN 33:50
1 waAmraAataAni 2:282
1 waAmraAatiy 3:40
2 waAmraAatuhu 11:71 111:4
26 - 2 duals =24

i fail to understand how this is miraculous though. it could have very easily been put in there. muhammad claimed to be a prophet for TWENTY THREE years. he had plenty of time. if not, then uthman.. certainly, when he compiled the qu'ran he could have changed things here and there. what is so amazing about this?

you want to see a coincidence? go to the first two books of the bible in hebrew. now search the first letter and skip every 50. you will find the letters that say TORAH in Hebrew. You can do that at the beginning AND end of the first two books.

Then go to Leviticus.. Skip every 7, and you get YHWH.

Then, go to the last two, and you can look at the beginning AND end.. It onces again says "TORAH" but this time backwards.

Hence, it looks like this..

Torah>>>Yahweh<<<Torah

Hence, it all leads to Yahweh.

The chances of that happening are extremely low. I mean very very very low. You find me ONE other book in history that does such and I will give you a thousand bucks.

If does not mean it is miraculous. It just means that life is full of such coincidences. Certainly, yusuf estes and others are not stupid when they say it is no miracle!
 
thirdwatch512 said:
i fail to understand how this is miraculous though. it could have very easily been put in there. muhammad claimed to be a prophet for TWENTY THREE years. he had plenty of time. if not, then uthman.. certainly, when he compiled the qu'ran he could have changed things here and there. what is so amazing about this?
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I don't think it's any more likely Muhammed or Uthman deliberately put them there than God did. I'm sure they both had far better things to do with their time. That, and the fact that had that been the case the 'miracles' would have been drawn to people's attention long before now.

Pure coincidence, nothing more, even if some of the numbers do match up as this particular 'scholar' claims.
 
i tend to agree that it is nothing more then coincidence. however, it could have been put in there if one wanted it!
 
We interrupt our regularly scheduled Koranic Miracle thread for a message from one of our sponsors--

I have a need to make what I think is a frighteningly obvious point: since when does anyone ascribe the term “miraculous” to random and/or coincidental number sequences in a book?

When I listen to how people (“miracle’ists”, et al) describe their gods, I am always taken by two things: How really weak they make their gods while trying to make them omnipotent, and how indistinguishable those gods are from humans.

Quite obviously, the alleged miracles once ascribed to the gods have been scaled back as god(s) has had to attend to more pedestrian endeavors. Where once it was claimed that gods were required for every occurrence, now those same gods are relegated to a vastly less direct connection with natural events. Where once, god(s)s caused great earthquakes in his wrath, we now know that plate tectonics does the job for him. “Miracle’ists”, et al have assigned god(s) much less demanding tasks. We’re left with god(s) who have little else to do except make silly cross-word puzzles and to spend his time figuring out how many jinn can dance on the head of a pin.

Before, it was impossible to conceive of a world of ethics without a god, and now it is not at all inconceivable. It was inconceivable that there were not angels pushing the planets and gods opened flowers and so on-- but now it is natural to know that these things have non-divine underpinnings.
 
Whatsthepoint said:
I think some are deliberate, namely the equal occurences of connected words, such as haven and hell, man and woman..
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ah, I have never been impressed with the "man" "woman" = 24. Out of the thousands of words in the qu'ran, they come up with like 36 of them. Even then, a lot are lies (Like paradise and hell do not equal the same. paradise is mentioned 11 less times, but the person who claimed the miracle added one of the words for 'jinn' to 'jannah')

So yeah.. Those are no miracle at all. Go to any book, do a search on the number of occurrences of this and that word, match them up, and you are good to go.

what i DO find a bit interesting is how days is mentioned 30 times, and month 12, and day 365(even though there is a lot of dispute about that one.

I have searched word occurrences in many books and have never found one where month was mentioned 12 times, and days 30 times, just as both the lunar and solar calenders have.

But then again, I have never found any book where you can skip every 50 letters and find the word TORAH in the first two books, the next YHWH, and the last two have Torah backwards, hence making it all lead toward YHWH. I have looked at many books and have never found such.

So perhaps it is a coincidence.

I have been speaking to an islamic professor of arabic and pre islamic poetry, and I asked him if it was common for one to add such patterns(like month 12 times, days 30.) He said that he has never found any writing where such things were done. But, he also said that people have done such in english writings, but it is very uncommon within english.. Ocassionally people will do things. We are human, and all different! so I PMed him asking more about it and he has yet to respond.

so we will see! but i doubt it is any miracle. :)
 
Resigned said:
We interrupt our regularly scheduled Koranic Miracle thread for a message from one of our sponsors--


Before, it was impossible to conceive of a world of ethics without a god, and now it is not at all inconceivable. It was inconceivable that there were not angels pushing the planets and gods opened flowers and so on-- but now it is natural to know that these things have non-divine underpinnings.
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So God is relegated to being the force that created the mechanisms for life itself. Which is in my opinion where he should be in the first place. (My "God" is whatever initially created life and might turn out to be a collection of energy and physics.

There is no doubt now that the Crowd Pleaser Miracles dont happen. The Red sea remains unparting and the moon refused stalwartly to split.
Why? Because such events would be up on You-Tube.

Well hold on a second, because such Miracles already are. Nope I'm not talking about Marys face in tealeaves or Allah's name appearing on a BK Cone.
I'm talking big miracles here. What! You missed them?
The Tsunami and New Orleans.

1000 years from now the next prophets will talk about how the USA had sinnethed exceeding and God sent his roth to wrath the city of New Orleans.
And there were in those days them that warned against The US's sin, and called unto them to stop. The King of France did spurn the Emperor Bush and spake to him saying " Repent & ye shall avoid the waters" But Bush repentethethed not and a doom came upon them and despite their might they had no power.

Miracles are a wonderful mix of History, Passing time, Creative writing and Chinese whispers.
 
Resigned said:
I have a need to make what I think is a frighteningly obvious point: since when does anyone ascribe the term “miraculous” to random and/or coincidental number sequences in a book?

When I listen to how people (“miracle’ists”, et al) describe their gods, I am always taken by two things: How really weak they make their gods while trying to make them omnipotent, and how indistinguishable those gods are from humans.
Click to expand...


EXACTLY !!

The whole exercise is totally self-defeating.
 
I saw a miracle happen the other night on TV. A magician asked a member of the public to shoot a bullet out of a pistol and this magician performed a miracle right in front of my eyes by catching it between his teeth.

Since I don't undertand nor do I know how he did it I am left with no other choice than to believe it was a miracle!

David Blane anyone
 
This is very interesting !

The 1969 Moon Landing is Indicated in the Qur'an

Sura (Chapter) 54 of the Quran is entitled “The Moon”


The Hour has drawn near and the moon has split. (Qur'an, 54:1)

The Arabic word "inshaqqa" (split) used in the above verse is derived from the word "shaqqa," which can also be used to mean "causing something to rise, ploughing or digging the soil":


departure of the lunar module, which left the lunar surface at 17:54:1 (Universal Time)
http://tinyurl.com/2a3uze


The minute and second of the departure (Moon splitting) is the same as the chapter number

verse 54:1 in the Quran to the end of the Quran, there are 1389 verses.

Remarkably, the year 1389 in the Islamic calendar is equivalent to the year 1969 which is the year that the first man landed on the Moon!

Also, Sura 54 itself has 55 verses. if we write 551389 next to each other, it will give us the exact day, month, and year that Apollo 11 landed on the moon: 07/20/1969. In other words, 5/5/1389 (in Islamic calendar) = 07/20/1969.

we add the digits of 1389
We get 1+3+8+9 = 21
It was the 21st of July of 1969 that NASA lifted off the Moon

(Allah knows best)
 
NUMBERS IN THE HOLLY QURAN

number seven is a prime number it can only be divided by itself or by 1

Among all the numbers, the number seven is the first number stated in Quran.
Al-Fatihah (the opening), we find that it is made of seven verses, and it is composed of twenty-one alphabets, which is a multiple of seven (21=7*3).

"It (Hell) has seven Gates, for each of those Gates is a (special) class (of sinners) assigned
Al-Hijr, Chapter #15, Verse #44

the word “Hell” is repeated 77 times throughout the whole Quran

number of Suras from the Sura 2, where the number 7 is stated for the first time, to the Sura 78, where the number 7 is stated for the last time, we find that there are exactly 77 chapters

the number of verses from the verse (2:29), where 7 appears for the first time, to the verse (78:12), where 7 appears for the last time, we find that there are exactly 5649 verses, and this number is also a multiple of seven.
807 X 7 = 5649


When we count the number of verses from the beginning of Surat Al-Baqarah 2 (2:1), where 7 appears for the first time, to the end of Surat An-Naba 78 (78:40), where 7 appears for the last time, we find that there are 5705 verses, and this number is also a multiple of seven! 815 X 7 = 5705

“Allah” is stated for the first time in the first verse of the Quran, to the Sura 112, where “Allah” is stated for the last time, there are exactly 112 Suras, and this number is a multiple of seven. 16 X 7 = 112

From the verse (1:1) “Allah” is stated for the first time to the verse (112:2) “Allah” is stated for the last time, there are 6223 verses, and this number is also a multiple of seven
889 x 7 = 6223

The numbers of Quran’s alphabets is 28, i.e. 7*4.

The Prophet, may peace be upon Him, lived for 63 years, i.e. 7*9. Allah(swt) knows best.
 
We sent aforetime our apostles with Clear Signs and sent down with them the Book and the Balance (of Right and Wrong), that men may stand forth in justice; and We sent down Iron, in which is (material for) mighty war, as well as many benefits for mankind, that Allah may test who it is that will help, Unseen, Him and His apostles: For Allah is Full of Strength, Exalted in Might (and able to enforce His Will)

Surah 57:25. Al-Hadid (Iron)

(Yusuf Ali Translation)


Native Iron is quite often a misnomer as natural iron is not necessarily "native" to Earth since it rarely occurs on the Earth's surface by terrestrial processes. It is mostly found in the form of meteorites that have impacted the Earth's surface.(sent down)

It is postulated that another planet similar to Earth (a rocky planet) broke apart early in the formation of the solar system and is responsible for the iron-nickel debris that rains down upon the Earth on a daily basis

http://www.galleries.com/minerals/el.../iron/iron.htm


"Iron has been used for a very long time.primitive iron tools which have been
dug up are thought to be several thousand years old. These tools were probaly made from tiny amount of native iron found in the meteorites- lumps of rocks which have crashed to the earth from space.
meteroites contain most of the earth's native iron"

http://books.google.com/books?id=sp-...YVMCVUW_WTfyE4

"Al- Hadid" is the 57th sura in the Qur'an. The abjad of the word "Al-Hadid" in Arabic, when the numerological values of its letters are added up, is also 57.
The numerological value of the word "hadid" alone is 26. And 26 is the atomic number of iron.
 
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