Who is the Trinity to Christians & Muslims?

[vpb]

I think you missed my point. I asked, if Jesus was not crucified, then WHO was? Islam teaches that someone took Jesus' place and was crucified in His place. My question is WHO?? And where is HIS body?? Someone died but that someone still had a dead body afterward, right? Where is that dead body? Was it not buried in what should have been Jesus' tomb, because everyone thought it was really Jesus? And how did it then disappear when a bunch of soldiers guarded the tomb and there was a huge rock in front of it, sealed closed? Your story, which you believe and stake your eternal destiny on, doesn't even make sense. Nor is it supported by ANY evidence, historical records or proof.

We know that it was one of his enemies, but we don't know who exactly. and I don't know why do u expect Qur'an to explain everything in detail.
1.Qur'an is not a book about Christianity.
2.Qur'an was sent for Tawheed. and the whole Qur'an is about Tawheed (Oneness of Allah).
3.Qur'an touches briefly some points about other religions. or a different examples is , that out of 125,000 prophets sent , Qur'an points out only few of them.
so we know that Qur'an's main purpose is to teach the oneness of Allah, which was taught in Injeel (Bible), Tewrat(Torah), but since people altered them, Qur'an came to confirm them as Allah swt says in the Qur'an,

2:97. Say: Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel-for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by Allah.s will, a confirmation of what went before, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe,-

Where is that dead body? Was it not buried in what should have been Jesus' tomb, because everyone thought it was really Jesus?

that body should have been buried just like all other bodies. remember, all the bodies of humans get rotten, except the body of the Prophets, but in this case Jesus a.s was raised to heaven, so we have no body here, but the body that was supposed to be on the tomb, it's like any other person's body who died in this world.

Nor is it supported by ANY evidence, historical records or proof.

I don't know why u keep saying this, when u can't prove yourself. even if u want to prove it by using bible, you have to prove that bible has no errors, which I think you might not be able to. So on both sources (scientifically, biblically) you may fail to prove such an event about Jesus a.s.

What? PETER had "nothing to do with Jesus"? That's like saying Muhammad had nothing to do with Allah. What a foolish statement.

I said that bc this "PETER" does not teach according to what Jesus a.s taught, that's why I'm saying "has nothing to do with Jesus". whereas Muhammed saws teaches according to what Jesus taught, Moses , Noah etc etc. peace be upon all of them.

And PETER didn't teach what Jesus taught? Prove it. I hope you know that the only way you can do that is to have 1st century manuscripts of Peter's letters, authenticated to be written by him, teaching something contrary to what Jesus taught. Do you have them? Of course not. So don't make ridiculous claims that you cannot possibly substantiate.

you should check how different layers evolved from the Q Gospel, during the time when christians were treated in hostility by jews, and it was a perfect situation for the teaching of the Jesus a.s to be changed.

and please , let us not go on discussion about Bible, cuz we know what are the outcomings of such a talk.

 

[Redeemed]

I think you missed my point. I asked, if Jesus was not crucified, then WHO was? Islam teaches that someone took Jesus' place and was crucified in His place. My question is WHO?? And where is HIS body?? Someone died but that someone still had a dead body afterward, right? Where is that dead body? Was it not buried in what should have been Jesus' tomb, because everyone thought it was really Jesus? And how did it then disappear when a bunch of soldiers guarded the tomb and there was a huge rock in front of it, sealed closed? Your story, which you believe and stake your eternal destiny on, doesn't even make sense. Nor is it supported by ANY evidence, historical records or proof.



What? PETER had "nothing to do with Jesus"? That's like saying Muhammad had nothing to do with Allah. What a foolish statement.

And PETER didn't teach what Jesus taught? Prove it. I hope you know that the only way you can do that is to have 1st century manuscripts of Peter's letters, authenticated to be written by him, teaching something contrary to what Jesus taught. Do you have them? Of course not. So don't make ridiculous claims that you cannot possibly substantiate.

Good points!

 

[vpb]

alpiana1, hey any recent problem?? it has been a long time since u haven't brough us some problem to discuss about

 

[Grace Seeker]

A Plea for Peace​

Dear Friends,

Please allow me to share a comment on the level of discussion on this thread.

I was gone for about a week and was only able to occassionally check in. I didn't notice it so much then, but in reading through to try to catch up, I would like to say a few things to all of us here:

1) We are so far off topic that I can't believe this thread is still open. I suppose given the importance of the Oneness of Allah, and the Divinity of Christ included in the concept of the Trinity for Islam and Christisanty respectively that we can make anything fit this thread, but I find much of the discussion to stray far from the main topic of the thread.

2) But it is the attitude of the discourse that I find most discouraging. It is filled with personal attacks and counter-attacks. Little snippets are taken at others making fun of them. Post are written in what comes across not as concern for another's soul (which is what some of them claim to be), but pure anger and condemnation. The character I see here is not befitting either Christian nor Muslim. It is as if there is a verbal Jihad or Crusade taking place right in the midst of this thread. I find little I can respect of either faith presented here, including some of my own previous statements which I now regret.

People are claiming to "prove" things which they are proviing to no one accept themselves and those already in agreement with them.

People are trying to "convert" others and failing to do so lambast them with all sorts of crude comments, making me think that perhaps they really didn't care for the individual in the first place. When you love someone you don't attack them just because they don't accept that love, you continue to love anyway.

If a non-Christian, non-Muslim stumbled across this thread, why would that person be interested in pursuing either faith? I don't think they would. Certainly not because of how they see us treat one another.

3) The above comments were for all of us. The following are for my Christian brothers and sisters.

I don't know Muslim theology enough to say where love for neighbor fits into the actual practice of the faith, but we Christians ought to know better. Please, my brothers, if we can't turn the other cheek, then at least do what Jesus instructed his disciples to do when he sent them out to the villages. Let us brush the sand from our feet and walk away.



It is my hope that we can return to a more civil discussion. If Islam is a religion of peace and Christianity is a religion of love. Surely we ought to do better in our conversation than what I am observing here. This is a contentious thread and it need not be. It is possible to discuss disagrements and yet do so in a polite, caring, and respectful manner.

Peace,
Grace Seeker

 

[Woodrow]

Peace Gene,

You have posted a very thought provoking note. You are correct this has gone very far off and has become a source of anger and misconceptions to both Muslims and Christians.

You are correct, the thread is promoting neither in a good view, we have become personally angry and all that is happening is we are both presenting ourselves badly.

This thread is not showing our mutual love for God(swt) it is showing our mutual arrogance as we each try to prove the other is wrong.

Reading through this thread again It shows neither of us as loving God(swt). Any person who is neither Muslim or Christian would view this thread as a very good reason to deny either.

Both of us are driving people away from God(swt) rather than showing any value in what we believe.

I am going to do my best to refrain from any further posting of my thoughts on this thread and try to function only in my role as a moderator. I pray that this thread will become a sensible discussion and all of the personal attacks cease.

 

[NoName55]

around and around we go insult after insult, yet no one (admin)seems to be noticing that or the fact that relentless preaching/promotion of something other than Islam is going on.

Satan is a master deceiver. He's deceived you into thinking you are ON the Straight Path, when in reality you are on the Broad Way that leads to destruction

I posted Surah Fatiha in a soofi thread implying/hinting that I preferred Kalamulla to goofy speech of innovators. and it got deleted by someone called LIStaff, yet these few people call Muhammad RasulAllah devil and all manner of filthy accusations are being levelled against islam as well as actions of deviants with Islamic names are being attributed to Islaam.

 

[Phil12123]

Some very good thoughts, Grace Seeker. Sometimes we can't see what we are doing until we step back and look at it all like you did after a period of absence. The New Testament standard is to "speak the truth in love" (Eph. 4:15). Not sure if there is something comparable in the Quran, but I think everyone can agree with that NT standard. Right? I for one apologize if the truth (as I see it) was not spoken in love.

 

[Phil12123]

I am going to do my best to refrain from any further posting of my thoughts on this thread and try to function only in my role as a moderator. I pray that this thread will become a sensible discussion and all of the personal attacks cease.

Woodrow, I have enjoyed your posts and comments and would be disappointed if you refrained from any further posting. Your posts have been informative and challenging and certainly not of the nature spoken of by Gene. In fact, when I've been in a discussion with another Muslim, I would think to myself, where's Woodrow? HE would understand what I'm trying to say (even though he might not agree with me). We need your voice of sanity here....

 

[NoName55]

Suck up to him yet keep referring to his religion as deception of the devil. very clever indeed! Lets see if it works

 

[Keltoi]

Suck up to him yet keep referring to his religion as deception of the devil. very clever indeed! Lets see if it works

The same way Muslims keep referring to Christianity as a religion of deception, it does go both ways. I wish both sides would stop casting judgement on whose religion is "false". We aren't going to persuade each other of anything.

 

[vpb]

The same way Muslims keep referring to Christianity as a religion of deception, it does go both ways. I wish both sides would stop casting judgement on whose religion is "false". We aren't going to persuade each other of anything.

2:20. So if they dispute with thee, say: "I have submitted My whole self to Allah and so have those who follow me." And say to the People of the Book and to those who are unlearned: "Do ye (also) submit yourselves?" If they do, they are in right guidance, but if they turn back, Thy duty is to convey the Message; and in Allah.s sight are (all) His servants.

so our duty (muslims), is only to convey the message, and then what u do with it, it's not our problem. that is between u and Allah az.

 

[Keltoi]

2:20. So if they dispute with thee, say: "I have submitted My whole self to Allah and so have those who follow me." And say to the People of the Book and to those who are unlearned: "Do ye (also) submit yourselves?" If they do, they are in right guidance, but if they turn back, Thy duty is to convey the Message; and in Allah.s sight are (all) His servants.

so our duty (muslims), is only to convey the message, and then what u do with it, it's not our problem. that is between u and Allah az.

The reverse is also true, although I'm not here to promote any message.

 

[vpb]

The reverse is also true

what do u mean, the reverse is also true?

 

[NoName55]

I've just seen graceseekeers two faces, in the past he told me not to pick on his brother in faith alpiana, despite that I kept praising him, giving reps as I thought he was a brother in humanity.

now he is disapproving my posts and getting angrier.

To continue in this fashion of conversation is simply rudeness not becoming either Muslim nor Christian.

just gave me bad rep for http://www.islamicboard.com/764173-post708.html

I'll say my adieu until this forum becomes moderated by the owners and staff and until they are able to stop trinitarians from dictatating as to who may post or not post

 

[Grace Seeker]

I've just seen graceseekeers two faces, in the past he told me not to pick on his brother in faith alpiana, despite that I kept praising him, giving reps as I thought he was a brother in humanity.

now he is disapproving my posts and getting angrier.

just gave me bad rep for http://www.islamicboard.com/764173-post708.html

I'll say my adieu until this forum becomes moderated by the owners and staff and until they are able to stop trinitarians from dictatating as to who may post or not post

My two faces are apparent to anyone who read my post on the previous page. And I will give bad reps to any one (Christian, Muslim, or otherwise) who continues to perpatuate the contentiousness with which this thread has become infected.

 

[vpb]

Crusades , crusades, crusades... .:skeleton::skeleton::raging::raging::hiding::hiding:ffended:ffended:ffended:

,

No need to give bad reps, "Jesus said to love you enemy "

 

[Grace Seeker]

Crusades , crusades, crusades... .:skeleton::skeleton::raging::raging::hiding::hiding:ffended:ffended:ffended:

,

No need to give bad reps, "Jesus said to love you enemy "

That's my point. We are not doing a very good job of even loving our nieghbors (which I consider you all to be).

While we may disagree over theology, we ought to be able to agree on how to show respect for one another. Show to others at least as much respect as you would like to be shown to you.

 

[vpb]

ok, before I close the case, and decide who's guilty, anyone wants to add anything??

 

[Muslim Woman]

a request to all:

I have noticed that some participants tell in the forum who are sending them pm & what was the message. I think , Private matter must be kept in private .


if u don't want to receive pm from anyone , just close down the option or block the specific person. But , in public , we must not disclose what other participants sent u in private .

I got bad rep from my Muslim bro .....i was a little bit shocked .....but we must not disclose name ....it's my opinion.

 

[Redeemed]

a request to all:

I have noticed that some participants tell in the forum who are sending them pm & what was the message. I think , Private matter must be kept in private .


if u don't want to receive pm from anyone , just close down the option or block the specific person. But , in public , we must not disclose what other participants sent u in private .

I got bad rep from my Muslim bro .....i was a little bit shocked .....but we must not disclose name ....it's my opinion.

Amen to that:thumbs_up